Lemony Snicket is a series of children's books featuring the Beaudelaire
children.

Carole and Gary
da Kool Kats

Melissa and Chris wrote:

>We are new to the list and new to letterboxing and are most intrigued by
>the Beaudelaire post. Can someone please explain.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Actually, the book series is called A Series of Unfortunate Events and features the Baudelaire (Beaudelaire?) orphans. "Lemony Snicket" is the author's pen name. My kids love these books, even though rarely does anything good happen to the orphans. They learn great vocab from them, and there are all kinds of humorous, dire warnings about reading further if one is faint-of-heart, etc. because things are not going to improve much for the orphans. My kids wish these letterboxes were somewhere around here (Eastern PA), but I think they are somewhere in the far west ( ! ), right? --lunaryakketyact

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I must say, this post has got to be the MOST inflammatory post I've seen on
this list in the year I've been letterboxing. I can certainly agree with you
when you say you're a grumpy old man. Why in the world should a huge deal be
made out of people asking a simple question. You say "

instead we get the same
old drivel and questions that have all been answered in the past or
can be answered by simply doing a search of old posts or checking out
the FAQ section of the website. "What's a hitchhiker?" Why does this
question need to be addressed here when the answer to the question is
so readily available to anybody who has a serious yearning to know."

I don't consider this drivel of any kind. It's a person, new to this hobbie,
potentially a great carver, hider, enthusiast, that wants to know. Just
because a person has made their way to the chat list does NOT mean they are
computer experts. As someone just the other day pointed out this is an
OUTDOOR hobby. It is a hobby that appeals to people that like to hike, solve
puzzles, and be OUTSIDE. No where in that description, or in any description
I've EVER seen does being a computer expert show up. What in the world does
it hurt for someone to say.. a hitchhiker is blah blah blah.. and to find
out more take a look at this link. It takes someone what, about 3 seconds.
Heck a discussion on hitchhikers might remind someone that's been doing this
a while that he has a hitchhiker he needs to get on its way, or that they
need to let the creator know it's been moved.. This is a hobby that involves
people sharing a piece of themselves with others, which should be done in a
safe and supportive manner.

Just my two cents worth.
Melanie aka Maiden




From: Brian, Ryan & Lori [mailto:BrianConnolly@marksonrosenthal.com]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:28 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Lemony Snicket


Since the topic of "Lemony Snicket" has come up I thought I'd throw
my two cents in. Why a major buzz about these boxes hasn't started on
this list is just beyond me. When something worthwhile comes up it
seems to be just passed by and overlooked, instead we get the same
old drivel and questions that have all been answered in the past or
can be answered by simply doing a search of old posts or checking out
the FAQ section of the website. "What's a hitchhiker?" Why does this
question need to be addressed here when the answer to the question is
so readily available to anybody who has a serious yearning to know.
It's all right there in easily accessible areas, of not just the main
website, but also on various other sites such as "Silent Dougs" great
website. Maybe a few clicks of your mouse can answer these questions
in a lot more timely and considerate manner than posting them to this
list. As you know, I'm just a grumpy old man who has been "pissed
off" about the way this game has been going in the past, and just to
let you all know, I ain't changing anytime in the near, or distant
future. Why anybody would begin a post with the statement " I'm sure
this has been answered in the past" is in my eyes just idiotic. If
you know it's been answered, go search for the answer, be self
reliant, don't count on someone holding your hand and leading you
along. Hell, that's the whole idea of letterboxing isn't it? Some of
the best and most sought after boxes never even make it to the clue
pages, you have to actually search for and discover these on your
own. Which brings me back to the Lemony Snicket boxes, go find these,
yes, they can be troublesome as you actually have to search the
messages here on the talklist for the clues instead of just easily
looking on the webpage for what is new in your area. But,believe me
you, these boxes are well worth any extra effort you may have to take
on your part. The one we found in FL was magnificent and well worth
the battle we had with angry boars, gators, and armadillos. The best
box, with the best stamp, and the best logbook I've ever seen.

Brian
TeamGreenDragon

P.S.

If you are letting your kid stick his hand into dark scary places,
God bless ya, Darwin spent a life time coming up with a theory aimed
directly at you. Our future depends on people just like you ridding
the world of stupid kids who don't know enough to keep from getting
themselves killed by even stupider reptiles.

One other thing:
Anybody asking any stupid questions at the carving class I'm giving
in CT next month will just cause things to go horribly wrong and
should be avoided at all cost.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I could be the one who is mistaken, but I took the post to be a
tongue-in-cheek effort to mimic the tone of Lemony Snicket's writing.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Melanie"
wrote:
> I must say, this post has got to be the MOST inflammatory post
I've seen on
> this list in the year I've been letterboxing. I can certainly
agree with you
> when you say you're a grumpy old man. Why in the world should a
huge deal be

Let me quote the immortal words of disgruntled South Park Townspeople.

Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble,
Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble,
Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble,
Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble!

Just what CAN we talk about on this list?

Since Brian was clever enough to print off the clues when they were
posted, we can never use the secret words "Lemony Snicket" anymore?

Many people who are new to the list don't know that they aren't
allowed to speak of letterboxing. Heaven forefend they post a message
without the proper state prefix. Someone might read it that doesn't
want to. Or mention "the Dark Side of Letterboxing" where children
find the boxes before the parents catch up.

I think we are forgetting that to the rest of the world "Elite
Letterboxer" is an oxymoron. It's not like we are doing anything
important.

Maybe we should listen to Mark and "just get out there and box".



> Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, Rabble!

P.S. I hope I deleted the proper amount of the previous message.

what is a letterbox?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Just because a person has made their way to the chat list
> does NOT mean they are computer experts.

I don't believe that following a link from www.letterboxing.org to the FAQ or
searching the message list archives or just typing "letterboxing hitchhiker"
into Google makes me a computer expert. That's all it would take to find the
answer.

As more and more people discover the internet, we (the current users) have the
right to hold our community to high standards of posting. All of us only have
24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week. Shooting off a message without doing any
research isn't very considerate of the thousands of people that read the list.

In RFC 1855, the standards of netiquette say:
"Read both mailing lists and newsgroups for one to two months before you post
anything. This helps you to get an understanding of the culture of the group."
(If you're interesting in the whole thing:
http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html )

Now that we have list archives, maybe waiting two months is a little extreme.
Maybe reading the last month's posts to familiarize yourself with the way things
work would be sufficient. Obviously, it depends on volume.

In short, we need to be welcoming to new users, yet they need to be respectful
of the way things work. If we tolerate ignorance, it will proliferate. If we
create lots of crappy boxes*, then that's what people will expect. On the other
hand, if we hold our art to a higher standard, then newcomers will as well.

-- Wes

* See the crappy letterbox by Ryan Carpenter:
http://www.geocities.com/rscarpen/Lb/US/OR/Crappy/

It's a box that people put letters in silly! ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve of Team Rayvenhaus
World of Letterboxing Community - Carpe Arcanum Arca!
"A world of difference awaits.........."
http://www.lbworld.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Lemony Snicket


> what is a letterbox?
>
>

Now that is the kind of playful banter I expect from this list! There
are a lot of very clever people involved in letterboxing and some of
the threads here have been great fun. I must admit, however, that I
don't remember any "high quality" messages that the newbies are
supposed to be leaving room for. I think that a fear of reprisal will
only lead to a more boring list.
It is true:
Some people don't get that they can google.

Harder clues do make for fewer and more commited finders.

But I think that we can still be friendly with all of this. It's a
chat group, isn't it?

y-nought





--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rayvenhaus"
wrote:
> It's a box that people put letters in silly! ;-)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------

Why don't we start a "Letterboxing Grudge Match?"

"With his backpack weighing in at a whopping 20 pounds,in the red
corner, near the U tree, covered in sticks and twigs it's Pee Ode
Boxer."

Let's get ready to GRUMBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tammy
ADG #1



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "edwebbe" wrote:
> Now that is the kind of playful banter I expect from this list!
There
> are a lot of very clever people involved in letterboxing and some
of
> the threads here have been great fun. I must admit, however, that
I
> don't remember any "high quality" messages that the newbies are
> supposed to be leaving room for. I think that a fear of reprisal
will
> only lead to a more boring list.
> It is true:
> Some people don't get that they can google.
>
> Harder clues do make for fewer and more commited finders.
>
> But I think that we can still be friendly with all of this. It's a
> chat group, isn't it?
>
> y-nought
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rayvenhaus"

> wrote:
> > It's a box that people put letters in silly! ;-)
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
---
> ----------------------

Now, that's funny!!!

Thanks, Ferret.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, FreeloadingFeret@a... wrote:
> what is a letterbox?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow.... I guess it's that "time of the month" on the board again.

Do they make Midol for talk list PMS?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> "...One other thing:
> Anybody asking any stupid questions at the carving class I'm
giving
> in CT next month will just cause things to go horribly wrong and
> should be avoided at all cost...."


Well, as a newbie, my bubble over letterboxing has been quickly
burst....I for one (who was wholeheartedly excited about this class
and greatly looking forward to it) have 2nd thoughts now about
attending for fear that I ask a stupid question.....

Sue,

Don't let Brian scare you, he's mostly just allot of big talk! Thats
one Dragon whose more yella than green!!

Truly to know him is to love him.
Now at the risk of putting my tush is flames way...Do we have to sign
up for the carving class or can we just show up?

~JustBeth


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "sue_sojourner"
wrote:
>
> > "...One other thing:
> > Anybody asking any stupid questions at the carving class I'm
> giving
> > in CT next month will just cause things to go horribly wrong and
> > should be avoided at all cost...."
>
>
> Well, as a newbie, my bubble over letterboxing has been quickly
> burst....I for one (who was wholeheartedly excited about this class
> and greatly looking forward to it) have 2nd thoughts now about
> attending for fear that I ask a stupid question.....

Brian,
It's not drivel!! Many times people don't have the time to sit and
sift through the various files of the various websites devoted to our
hobby! So they ask their questions when they join this list.

I didn't see a disclaimer on the group page when I considered joining
this group that stated no one is allowed to ask the same question
twice, nor did I see a directive informing us that we are required to
read the entire archives prior to posting any questions.

So...sorry if you feel that this is all drivel and repetitive
questions to you but to many it is a goldmine of information. If you
don't want to read the same stuff over and over..just hit the delete
button...after all it's not like we all know who reads every single
post and who doesn't. I know that I hit the delete button lots and in
fact I've been known to delete and entire digest because I don't have
time. I can always go back to the group page if needed to find out
what everyone is ranting/raving about later on.

I also am aware that this is a huge group with many personalities and
that sooner or later there will be disagreements. Hopefully the
majority of listmembers are mature enough to sit back and shake their
collective heads as a minority makes absolute fools of themselves
nitpicking the smallest details over and over!!

We all need to realize that sooner or later there will be the
opportunity to meet one another somewhere along the line and we will
most likely have a somewhat preformed opinion about that person. Most
likely directly caused/affected by our actions here on the list.

Of course I've just probably put myself on the top of the flame list
by even stooping to reply to this whole thread. Oh..well...I'll just
hit the delete button a little more....its not like anyone would know.

LOL,
MiniBullyMom



".....instead we get the same old drivel and questions that have all
been answered in the past or can be answered by simply doing a search
of old posts or checking out the FAQ section of the website. "What's
a hitchhiker?" Why does this question need to be addressed here when
the answer to the question is so readily available to anybody who has
a serious yearning to know......"

-----this has all been very intertaining. like one big family getting
after scrooge for yelling at tiny tim..... and in the end all is well.
think i will close the chapter for the night and go "boxing"
smile
uneksia



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Fireflylight@a... wrote:
Wow.... I guess it's that "time of the month" on the board again.
Do they make Midol for talk list PMS?

I for one, have to agree with everything Brian said. Even though
being a computer expert is not a requirement, it does not take too
much expertise to make your way to the LbNA web site and read the FAQ
section. On the home page of this list there is a link for list
etiquette which takes you to the LbNA website. The very first item
on this page states, "Newbie questions are most often anwsered in the
FAQ or archive; your best bet is to check there first before posting,
as the list is very high volume."

You are right, it is an innocent question, but there are over 1500
members on this list and if everyone asked innocent questions without
taking the time to do some searching for answers on their own, the
volume of posts would be 100 times what it is now.

Yes, we were all new at one time, and I am sure I asked some stupid
questions back then also, but I am being totally honest when I say
thay I read every word of the LbNA FAQ and read back several months
in the list messages (at least scanned subject lines) first.

There are countless resources available to new letterboxers --
information on finding boxes, information on planting boxes, stamp
carving info and pictures, ideas for types of clues, definitions of
words and terminology -- in multiple places. There are links to
these places in the files section of this and most of the regional
lists and most member informational sites belong to the letterboxing
web ring -- one has only to spend an evening surfing the web ring to
have the majority of all questions answered.

I am tired of hearing that we need to make it "easier" for newbies.
How much easier do you want it to be? Part of the whole philosophy
of this game is NOT having everything spelled out in black and white.

Thank you for your honesty Brian, and Phyto you were right on in your
response.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Melanie"
wrote:
> I must say, this post has got to be the MOST inflammatory post I've
seen on
> this list in the year I've been letterboxing. I can certainly agree
with you
> when you say you're a grumpy old man. Why in the world should a
huge deal be
> made out of people asking a simple question. You say "
>
> instead we get the same
> old drivel and questions that have all been answered in the past or
> can be answered by simply doing a search of old posts or checking
out
> the FAQ section of the website. "What's a hitchhiker?" Why does this
> question need to be addressed here when the answer to the question
is
> so readily available to anybody who has a serious yearning to know."
>
> I don't consider this drivel of any kind. It's a person, new to
this hobbie,
> potentially a great carver, hider, enthusiast, that wants to know.
Just
> because a person has made their way to the chat list does NOT mean
they are
> computer experts. As someone just the other day pointed out this is
an
> OUTDOOR hobby. It is a hobby that appeals to people that like to
hike, solve
> puzzles, and be OUTSIDE. No where in that description, or in any
description
> I've EVER seen does being a computer expert show up. What in the
world does
> it hurt for someone to say.. a hitchhiker is blah blah blah.. and
to find
> out more take a look at this link. It takes someone what, about 3
seconds.
> Heck a discussion on hitchhikers might remind someone that's been
doing this
> a while that he has a hitchhiker he needs to get on its way, or
that they
> need to let the creator know it's been moved.. This is a hobby that
involves
> people sharing a piece of themselves with others, which should be
done in a
> safe and supportive manner.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
> Melanie aka Maiden
>
>
>
>
> From: Brian, Ryan & Lori [mailto:BrianConnolly@m...]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:28 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Lemony Snicket
>
>
> Since the topic of "Lemony Snicket" has come up I thought I'd
throw
> my two cents in. Why a major buzz about these boxes hasn't
started on
> this list is just beyond me. When something worthwhile comes up it
> seems to be just passed by and overlooked, instead we get the same
> old drivel and questions that have all been answered in the past
or
> can be answered by simply doing a search of old posts or checking
out
> the FAQ section of the website. "What's a hitchhiker?" Why does
this
> question need to be addressed here when the answer to the
question is
> so readily available to anybody who has a serious yearning to
know.
> It's all right there in easily accessible areas, of not just the
main
> website, but also on various other sites such as "Silent Dougs"
great
> website. Maybe a few clicks of your mouse can answer these
questions
> in a lot more timely and considerate manner than posting them to
this
> list. As you know, I'm just a grumpy old man who has been "pissed
> off" about the way this game has been going in the past, and just
to
> let you all know, I ain't changing anytime in the near, or distant
> future. Why anybody would begin a post with the statement " I'm
sure
> this has been answered in the past" is in my eyes just idiotic. If
> you know it's been answered, go search for the answer, be self
> reliant, don't count on someone holding your hand and leading you
> along. Hell, that's the whole idea of letterboxing isn't it? Some
of
> the best and most sought after boxes never even make it to the
clue
> pages, you have to actually search for and discover these on your
> own. Which brings me back to the Lemony Snicket boxes, go find
these,
> yes, they can be troublesome as you actually have to search the
> messages here on the talklist for the clues instead of just easily
> looking on the webpage for what is new in your area. But,believe
me
> you, these boxes are well worth any extra effort you may have to
take
> on your part. The one we found in FL was magnificent and well
worth
> the battle we had with angry boars, gators, and armadillos. The
best
> box, with the best stamp, and the best logbook I've ever seen.
>
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
>
> P.S.
>
> If you are letting your kid stick his hand into dark scary places,
> God bless ya, Darwin spent a life time coming up with a theory
aimed
> directly at you. Our future depends on people just like you
ridding
> the world of stupid kids who don't know enough to keep from
getting
> themselves killed by even stupider reptiles.
>
> One other thing:
> Anybody asking any stupid questions at the carving class I'm
giving
> in CT next month will just cause things to go horribly wrong and
> should be avoided at all cost.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> --
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Umm, actually on the home page of this group, you will find this
notation:

List etiquette and conventions are at:
http://www.letterboxing.org/list.html


By following the indiacted link, you will find this advice:

Policy: The list is not moderated... Newbie questions are most often
anwsered in the FAQ or archive; your best bet is to check there first
before posting, as the list is very high volume.


Pretty clear if you ask me. As for a newbie "not having time" to
check the FAQ and/or archives before asking questions -- so, what
instead they will waste everyone else's time? If you don't have time
to educate yourself about the hobby and instead are expecting the
group to do it for you -- you have taken up the wrong hobby.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "minibullymom"
wrote:
> Brian,
> It's not drivel!! Many times people don't have the time to sit and
> sift through the various files of the various websites devoted to
our
> hobby! So they ask their questions when they join this list.
>
> I didn't see a disclaimer on the group page when I considered
joining
> this group that stated no one is allowed to ask the same question
> twice, nor did I see a directive informing us that we are required
to
> read the entire archives prior to posting any questions.
>
> So...sorry if you feel that this is all drivel and repetitive
> questions to you but to many it is a goldmine of information. If
you
> don't want to read the same stuff over and over..just hit the
delete
> button...after all it's not like we all know who reads every single
> post and who doesn't. I know that I hit the delete button lots and
in
> fact I've been known to delete and entire digest because I don't
have
> time. I can always go back to the group page if needed to find out
> what everyone is ranting/raving about later on.
>
> I also am aware that this is a huge group with many personalities
and
> that sooner or later there will be disagreements. Hopefully the
> majority of listmembers are mature enough to sit back and shake
their
> collective heads as a minority makes absolute fools of themselves
> nitpicking the smallest details over and over!!
>
> We all need to realize that sooner or later there will be the
> opportunity to meet one another somewhere along the line and we
will
> most likely have a somewhat preformed opinion about that person.
Most
> likely directly caused/affected by our actions here on the list.
>
> Of course I've just probably put myself on the top of the flame
list
> by even stooping to reply to this whole thread. Oh..well...I'll
just
> hit the delete button a little more....its not like anyone would
know.
>
> LOL,
> MiniBullyMom
>
>
>
> ".....instead we get the same old drivel and questions that have
all
> been answered in the past or can be answered by simply doing a
search
> of old posts or checking out the FAQ section of the
website. "What's
> a hitchhiker?" Why does this question need to be addressed here
when
> the answer to the question is so readily available to anybody who
has
> a serious yearning to know......"

Wes you wrote:

> Now that we have list archives, maybe waiting two months is a little
extreme.
> Maybe reading the last month's posts to familiarize yourself with the way
things
> work would be sufficient. Obviously, it depends on volume.


You know Wes I actually did read the messages for about a month or so before
I joined this list so I could see how things worked. It was quite
enlighting, so much so that I came within a hair's breath a couple of times
of swearing off letterboxing forever.

One of the reasons that I didn't was because I realized that very few
members of this group actually post a message here on the group itself and
they couldn't all be mean people.

I mean do the math, at present there are 1655 members on this list
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/), I do not believe I have ever
seen even 10% of those members post all at once.

It would be interesting to see 165 newbie posts in one night, might give
some people heartburn.

Wildhawk

Take a look at http://snicketl.tripod.com/reptileroom.html


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa and Chris"
wrote:
> We are new to the list and new to letterboxing and are most
intrigued by
> the Beaudelaire post. Can someone please explain.
>
> Thanks.

> Which brings me back to the Lemony Snicket boxes,...... The one we
found in FL was magnificent and well worth
> the battle we had with angry boars, gators, and armadillos. The
best
> box, with the best stamp, and the best logbook I've ever seen.
>
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
>


That good, eh? That is saying a lot coming from someone accustomed to
the work of RTRW.

I am not too surprised, given the quality of the clues. I remember
printing a copy of The Reptile Room when they were posted to show my
kids an example of a well concieved letterbox. It is like they were
pulled straight from the books.

If I ever get to Florida I will have to handcuff the kids and go
looking for that one.

y-nought

> I am not too surprised, given the quality of the clues. I remember
> printing a copy of The Reptile Room when they were posted to show
my
> kids an example of a well concieved letterbox. It is like they
were
> pulled straight from the books.
>


I have to echo you on that statement! I have studied the clues and
the various LS websites, including that supposedly of the author,
and I am awed and impressed at the genious of these clues and the
authenticity of their mimicry. I even ordered the first 6 books in
the series and cannot wait for a chance to delve into them.

I wait on the edge of my seat for the next clue from the birlliant
Mr./Ms. Snicket, and am keeping my fingers crossed that the
locations will continue to traverse the country.

Now this... this is how the game should be played!

SpringChick